Decoding the Perfect Hire: Unveiling the Secrets to Building a High-Performing Team

INTRO/OUTRO [00:00:02]:

Welcome to the Cleaning in Motion Show. A podcast interviewing successful cleaning business owners to hear what they're doing that works, and what they've tried that's failed, all to help you grow your business. And now on to the show.

Samuel Klein [00:00:26]:

Hey there! Welcome back to another episode of the Cleaning In Motion Show. The go-to podcast for all things cleaning business success. Today, we got an insightful discussion lined up with the remarkable Jonathan Whistman. If you're looking to elevate your cleaning business game, today's episode is not to be missed. In this episode of the Cleaning in Motion Show, we dive into the world of AI power, hiring onboarding strategies and sales leadership with our guest Jonathan Whistman, author of 'The Sales Boss', and an owner and CEO of multiple companies, including PerceptionPredict.ai and WhoHire.com. Discover how companies are using technology to streamline the recruitment process, assess candidates, and improve employee retention. Gain valuable insights on setting clear expectations, fostering employee growth, and creating a sustainable system that drives business success. You don't want to miss these episodes as a Jonathan was also, owner of a cleaning business who is sold for multiple seven figures only after having it for a couple of years. Jonathan shares a lot of insights on hiring your inside sales team, your outside sales team, how to retain them, and how to create a culture, so they can, perform at a peak performance without crashing out and have consistency growth. This episode is packed with amazing insights and actionable items that you can implement immediately. I know I learn a lot, and I'm already starting to implement for my business. I hope you enjoyed these episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and review that helps us a lot in sharing if you have colleagues that thing that will gain insights from these episodes.

Jonathan Whistman [00:02:33]:

Thank you, Sam. That's quite the introduction. I appreciate the opportunity to be on your show. My heart goes into the cleaning industry because my very first entry in the business was starting a cleaning company. So, you're taking me back to my roots today.

Samuel Klein [00:02:48]:

Nice. And we definitely will talk about that. You mentioned it briefly. How did you exit that company. But I wanna hear a little bit about your journey. And before we, we started there, Jonathan, Why don't you walk us a little bit to your journey from being raised in a religious called to becoming what you are today. And, I think that's a a good starting point. So you can also introduce yourself and people get to know you as we go through the conversation.

Jonathan Whistman [00:03:20]:

Yeah. So as you mentioned, I'm the author of 'The Sales Boss'. It's a book about building high performance sales teams, particularly, not only how do you hire the right people, but how do you put structure around that? And how do you motivate people on a consistent basis to deliver the kind of results that you're looking for? And that's really rooted in my past I believe that human potential is what's the ability to harness human potential rather is really the skill that separates great organizations from mediocre organizations. And you mentioned growing up in a religious cult. So you know, early on, everyone in my family, my parents, my grandparents, were a part of the same religious community, very restrictive spent thousands of hours every month knocking on people's doors trying to convert them. You know, as you grow up and you started getting a a larger view of the world, I knew that I had to make a change. And so when I left that, I was completely cut off from family and from the sort of social net that I had. And it was interesting to go out and and really in my mid 20s sort of discover, who am I without sort of, you know, that institutional thinking And and and while it was sort of a traumatic period in life, it also led to who I am today because if you're gonna go knock on somebody's door and convince them to complete change their way of life to completely leave, you know, the world they've known and commit themselves to this religious ideal you really have to understand what makes somebody think and take action and how do you understand people? And so this sent me on the journey of in every business that I got involved in in really thinking through and taking apart what makes people tick. And so I've I've started and sold a number of businesses and really found my passion in technology. How do you use technology to inform and augment the things that you do on the human side. So I think there's a there always has to be a balance between the the data part of a business? What is the data telling us? Am I making the right decision based on that data, but also balancing that with the human part of what causes people to be able to execute against that data. Cause you can have all the data in the world and not change how people act. Think just about smoking. There's massive amounts of data, right, about smoking's gonna kill you. What it does to your lungs. There's horrendous pictures. There's life stories. And yet people still choose to smoke. So, anyway, that's that's that's the the journey that I've been on.

Samuel Klein [00:06:04]:

So going back to your journey and and these are very unique experience now that you were knocking on doors trying to reach people or convert them or attract them to your religion. And I I would imagine that you got a lot of rejections and maybe you got success here and there, but how that experience, shape you to understand human behavior and communication and also sales.

Jonathan Whistman [00:06:33]:

Wait. It's sort of funny now that you draw that correlation because it's sort of the ultimate, pipeline, you know, It is a numbers game. How many doors am I going to knock on today? I have to be able to face rejection on every door. But what you learn really quickly, and I didn't think about it at sales at the time is how do I, one, maintain my mindset as I'm through that. So that rejection doesn't wear me down, right, and I and I quit, but also how do I make sure that I can leave the rejection behind quick enough so that I can show up wholly present for the next person whose door I knock on. And the in the moment enough and off of autopilot enough that I can actually hear what they're saying to me. And that lesson really translated into all of the sales teams that I've helped build. The, you know, one of the truths I write about in my book is that humans love autopilot. Right? And you think about if you're out driving a car, you can go from the airport to home, not think anything about you know, who's behind you in traffic, the red light, any of that sort of thing, and you can get home safely. And salespeople get like that where they go they're just sort of going through the rhythms. It's autopilot. Right? We have our same intro. We have our same way of handling objections. The secret though is how do I stay on autopilot when it doesn't matter so that I can keep going, and I can execute with excellence. But how do I set traps for myself so that I come off of autopilot? And Sam or Julie or Kevin see me as a human having a real one on one interaction rather than I'm going through the motions because you're never going to convert somebody if they think you're going through the motions.

Samuel Klein [00:08:19]:

So it's basically translating into listening, you know, and to developing listening skills so you can add value and not only be, like, an automated pilot or trying to close the deal without a, build the relationship, I guess.

Jonathan Whistman [00:08:36]:

Yeah. Yeah. And I went to go further than just listening because listening might be, I heard you, and it has to go deeper to I understand you. And I like this phrase, and I use it in my book, and I discovered becoming an author and saying maybe since you published your book, you realize the only benefit of being an author is you can now quote yourself. So I'm gonna yeah. In my book, I say, I believe you believe that, which can sound really sarcastic. Like, I believe you believe that. But I don't I don't mean it in a sarcastic way. It means that when I'm, when I have a prospect or an employee or anyone sitting across for me, whatever I'm hearing from them, I one, I have to be able to see it from their perspective, and then I have to believe in my core that if I had seen the things they have seen, if I had experienced the things they had in their life, that I would feel exactly like they are. That their thinking isn't crazy. It isn't off base. It isn't, right, whatever label we put to that. Because it's only when I'm sitting there seeing the world exactly how they are and feeling the exact way they are. And I can imagine the action that they would take that I'm in a position to insert myself in there and suggest that maybe they could think or act or feel differently.

Samuel Klein [00:10:00]:

I think what you were saying is spot on. You know, if I bring that, that knowledge to my world, because we help commercial cleaning companies, and we have a whole department of, inside salespeople, which are calling in, making appointments. The first thing that, when we're hiring for that position, the first thing that I want to make sure is that they feel okay with rejections, you know, as they have to dial at least 200 times per day and, 90% are now living alone or so on. So, we...

Jonathan Whistman [00:10:41]:

And how do you get them feeling okay with that?

Samuel Klein [00:10:44]:

So that's where I want to go because I think what you said is super important. Instead of just, learning to listen, it's a learning to understand your side. No? And once you understand it, maybe you can make a connection. So, one of the and I wanna see if I can break down this with you. You know? And, I'm improvising here a little bit. So help me out in the sense that every time that we hire an inside salespeople, which is a very common position in the commercial cleaning industry, you rely on 2 things. No. You when you start the interview process, you first want to make sure that that person has experience. That they can have a decent conversation on the phone that they can, their communication skills are there. That they feel comfortable with rejections. And that won't slow them down or at least they still are very goal oriented. And because, of course, that's how they make money. If they hit their goals, they get compensated besides the salary. But, something that sometimes I see is missing. And when I hear this recording, is that listening and understanding, you know, because the way that we're training or most people train is that you start with a script and then you make it your own and then you just go and make the appointment. So, hiring this position, we have found that it's super hard not only for us that for most of our clients that we talk in the industry, because It's a position that you have to deal constantly with rejection that it's very repetitive that, it's hard to motivate the sales personal because, again, they just have to certain amount of appointments per week or per month, and they get compensated. Based on that, you know, like, a nice bonus, but still, you know, there are so many things that you can keep training them and help them grow and see also, like, the big picture on how they are value adding value to our customers, to the community through the cleaning services but it's hard. It's hard because you go into the routine day by day. You know? So I want is to pick up, your brain, Jonathan, and see if you have, first, experience working with inside salespeople or similar roles, and walk me a little bit. How would you hire someone in this position? And how would you keep them motivated? How do you teach someone. It doesn't have to be even inside sales, you know, to understand and not to listen, which I think, that's one of the biggest takeaway that I have gotten in this, 10 minutes conversation that we have so far.

Jonathan Whistman [00:13:33]:

Yeah. But that's a huge question.

Samuel Klein [00:13:35]:

It's a huge question. I know.

Jonathan Whistman [00:13:37]:

With a lot of pieces. So I'll try to unpack it a little bit. So one of the things that you mentioned is you have to hire somebody that is comfortable with the rejection. It is what I heard from you. So I think from an owner standpoint, if you own the business, you have to think about why does somebody wanna work for us? Like, what causes them to say yes to doing 200 calls a day and having to set a certain number of appointments. It's not the thing somebody grew up thinking, I want to do that. Right? So you really have to unpack your own company and the person that you're going to hire. And my belief is that people will join a company, and they'll stay with a company when they believe that fundamentally, that company. They can still do their greatest work yet for that company, that company is gonna help them grow, mature, to something else and get them closer to something they, else they want in their future. Unfortunately, in the cleaning industry, like many industries, some of the people that are gonna come into your organization have went through a history of just seeking their next job. Maybe they've, you know, like, these are not typically career-based individuals. They might be sort of wandering aimlessly through life from one job to the next and when they tire of it, they leave. So maybe you're churning people out in 3 or 6 months in that role, and they're just who cares? They're gonna go on to something else. So you have to design your system that stops them, wakes them from their sleep, and the stooper they've been going their lives and say, look, you can dream bigger. And our organization is going to equip you to do that. We've done it for other people, and here's what it looks like. Automatically, you're going to get a different standard of, of person coming in the door. And unfortunately, business owners, they get to the point where they've churned through so many people. They quit thinking much about that position, and they go, I'm just if I keep them for 6 months, great. And then it just becomes this turnover of people. So I would start with sort of deconstructing what that looks like. And in my book, I guide you a company through doing that, everything from the way I write the job ad. Tells that candidate something about my company. So if I'm, like, how do you write your job ad? Like, is it somebody to cold call all day, and you gotta set a certain number of bully. That's gonna really shrink down who you're appealing to. I'm gonna start with describing the kind of person that does well in that role inside of my organization. And I'm gonna describe the journey they're on and how we plug into that journey for them. And then every thing from the very first phone call to every email is gonna be geared to boost the confidence that my applicant believes that I can help them get to the next role. So, Sam, think about the job ads most people are at, when they talk about compensation for that role, How do they typically describe it? Would you say? You've probably seen a bunch of these.

Samuel Klein [00:16:59]:

Yeah. I know. And I was thinking about that because, most of the ad jobs that I see there, it's almost copy paste. It's like the same person wrote it. You know, they're super boring.

Jonathan Whistman [00:17:13]:

When they talk about compensation specifically, what do they say?

Samuel Klein [00:17:16]:

Yeah. They say it or by the hour, or these ones you're gonna get by the hour plus bonus, or this is the base salary and, the benefits of the company, like,

Jonathan Whistman [00:17:27]:

Is that role to typically a base salary plus commission?

Samuel Klein [00:17:31]:

Correct.

Jonathan Whistman [00:17:32]:

Right? And so a lot of companies are gonna describe that as you can earn unlimited income or you can earn up too. Right? I'm gonna make that completely different. I'm gonna know my number so well that I'm gonna describe the total compensation as their base plus their commission And I'm just gonna describe that it is a base plus commission, and we, we fire people. I won't use that term. We let people go. Who don't make x in a year because our system is proven to work for people to accomplish that. That's completely different than saying, you can earn this to you will earn this, or you won't have the job. And it's a subtle shift, but automatically it gets people thinking differently. And then I'm gonna design my hiring process So that day 1, when they sit in that chair, they're already completely trained. They're already earning. And when I demonstrate to people how that's done, most of them can't believe that it's possible that on day 1, we can put somebody in a chair that is operating at a higher level than somebody that they've traditionally had there for 90 days. And that's by designing the process. So I'll jump into a couple process things. One is if you're not using predictive hiring, you're getting it wrong. My company WhoHire.com has analyzed 1000 of cleaners. And with a 15 minute assessment, We can tell you how cleaner will clean and their turnover for sales.

Samuel Klein [00:19:07]:

So let's, so sorry to interrupt. Let let's define what is predictable, predictive hiring.

Jonathan Whistman [00:19:13]:

Predictive hiring means, instead of just looking at a string of applicants and looking at their job history, a science has progressed far enough that we can measure human attributes, from an online questionnaire. So my company has over 500 human attributes, things like grit, in that the the the way somebody responds to the atmosphere around them, how do they handle stress all of those sort of things, and all research based that you can measure that reliably. Right? And so what we do is we go out and we find a 1000 plus people that are doing that job. So think salespeople selling for cleaning companies inside sales. And we get this whole truckload of psychographic data from them. What are the 500 things that we can know about the people that are doing the job today? And then we ingest actual data to tell us which of these 500 things that we can measure actually matter, and we get it down to the 12 or 13 items. And that becomes what we call a performance fingerprint. So we know for every job, for every role, exactly the kind of human that does well and thrives in it. Think about, like, botany with plants. Right? If you went down to, a greenery and bought a plant, there's a certain recipe for that plant. It does great in this much sunlight with this much pH factor in the soil. And if you put it in that soil, it does really well. You don't put it in that soil, it dies. And humans are very much like that. So what we've enabled for companies is for us to say, if you need an inside salesperson operating in a call center in a cleaning company, specifically, this is exactly the person that matches that soil. And they do that in a 10 to 15 minute pre hire survey. So that's what I mean by predictive hiring. You still have a lot of companies that are sort of, you know, thumb in the wind. What does my gut tell me about these applicants and they're looking at it? And, for that role in that industry, there's not a lot of job history to go on and half of it's probably fictional anyway. Right? So think about this pipeline of people coming in. You wanna, 1, make sure that you're using predictive hiring to say, these are the 10 or 20 people that actually could thrive in this soil and in this job because now it's worth it for me to invest my time, energy, and training into that person, because I have a high degree of confidence that they're gonna to match that. So that's step 1. Step 2 is how do I then first, I, you know, I'm writing the job description. So how do I attract that sort of person? And then I'm verifying through an assessment that they will fit that hiring profile. And then the question is how do I bring them from there to saying, yes. Well, I've got a series of interviews. In my book, I talk about a number of interviews. So one is my 15 minute phone screen. How am I gonna screen them? And you listen to the way hiring managers are screening, cleaning, salespeople, There's no consistency. There's no path. It's sort of okay. I can get on. They, you know, they can speak English. They sound like they're clear. I'm gonna bring them in for an interview. I wanna create what I call a pressure interview. In that role, inside sales, the thing they're gonna deal with every day is rejection. They have to in 30 seconds, 1 minute, 2 minutes. Certainly within 5 minutes, warm that prospect up to say yes to taking a meeting. But I get on the phone as somebody that's interviewing them, and I, you know, I'm mister happy, and I'm trying to convince them this is gonna be a great job for them. And I'm selling our company and what I really should be doing is I should be acting as though I'm gonna have to write a $500,000 check based on this 15 minute conversation. Like, hang up the phone and write the check. That's gonna put a different mindset. So I need I'm actually a barrier, like, two people getting in our organization. So it doesn't mean I'm gonna be rude to them, but they're gonna have to warm me up. Right? And I'm gonna not be really clear to them how I'm feeling in the moment. So I'm not doing any reflective conversation with them where I'm telling them that, oh, that was a great answer. Let's ask them, you know, the normal human niceties. I'm gonna move fast. I'm gonna move quick. And what I'm gonna try to see is do they have the ability when they don't know how I'm feeling? And I'm sort of rushing through do they have the ability to stay present, deal with that rejection, and slow me down enough that I actually start liking them? Does that make sense? So as I take a candidate through this the hiring process, I need to be able to check that I've tested for all the things I know they have to have in order to do well in that role. So one of them is rejection. So how do I reject a candidate to see how they deal with rejection?

Samuel Klein [00:24:27]:

So the first step It's, basically, you craft the ad, no, or the job post in a way that you stand out from the crowd and get the candidate excited. No? I love what you said that we fire people or let people go. If they don't make a certain amount of dollars per year. I think, again, you just shifted the wording to make it much more appealing, much more unique. And now you got my curiosity. Like, wow, those people really make that amount. Like, I definitely wanna go and try something there or hear what they're all about.

Jonathan Whistman [00:25:09]:

And more and and I can just add to that, Yeah. I have to be able to back that up, yeah, as a company. Right? So I wanna be able to show there's nothing more powerful than showing to a new hire, the w two of your salespeople and saying, this is what they're earning, and this is how they got there. More importantly, if I have a career path, let's say they go from inside sales to outside sales and then they go to management or how, you know, whatever that career path is in your organization, I'm gonna show them the w 2, not 1, not my best one. Gonna show them the average, and then I'm gonna show them a couple for every role along that path and say this is the money people make. You know, $80,000 or $90,000 somebody starting out in an inside sales role probably sounds pretty appealing. Yeah. But can I paint a path? You're not gonna pay them that right starting in that role, but can I show them a path that they can get there within a faster time period than they ever thought possible?

Samuel Klein [00:26:04]:

I love it. So you grabbed the the job description. You published it in this all this, job site indeed, monster, LinkedIn, then they start the application. And, I just wanna understand, if this is the moment that your solution, predictive, comes in or not yet, or you start first engaging with the...

Jonathan Whistman [00:26:28]:

So on WhoHire.com. Actually, we allow you, we have AI that helps you write the job posting, puts it on the job sites for you because you know, that's a pain just by itself. But once they apply on your site, it's gonna ask them a couple of questions. We have knockout questions. So example, maybe if you know, they don't have a driver's license. They're not authorized to work in the country. You're good. We're gonna automatically say thanks, but no thanks, right, because you don't wanna deal with that. But if they appear to be a candidate that meet you meet your minimum criteria, we're gonna send them a quick, and this is all configurable. So you can decide what you like. You don't like. We're gonna send them a quick link to say, hey. We looked at your application. We're interested in talking. If you'd like to move to the front of the line for a fast consideration, answer these few questions. They're gonna click on that. They're gonna answer the questions. They're doing our, assessment that has been crafted for that industry for that role. And then as soon as they finish, we're sending you a score of how they're gonna do in that position and how long they're likely to stay. And you can set an automation in our system to say, if they score above this, I wanna invite them for an in person interview, or if they're below this, I wanna automatically send them a text to say, thanks, but no thanks. We also have the ability within our system to do a one-way video interview. So maybe you don't wanna even talk to them yet. You wanna say they score above a certain amount. Now let's send them a one-way video interview. What that is there's a short welcome video from the owner of the company saying, hey. Happy to that you're considering us, you know, for your future career. We're looking for people like X Y Z. And our promise to you is that we can take you from this role to x. Like, I'm painting the vision for you're not gonna be in that role forever. You can do your best work for us. Can you just answer these 3 questions by video? So they get they're getting that text on their phone. They answer those 3 questions. Now you can have somebody on your team that has seen both their predicted score. How are they going to do? And they have a quick video interview. So you sort of see what they sound like, what do they look like, how do they present themselves when under pressure because we give them a countdown timer that you only have 30 seconds to think about your answer, you can set the timing at whatever you want before you've ever talked to somebody. And if they're if they're no good, you're never talking to them. And if they're great, right, then you're sending them, and you can do this automatic. Send them a link to say, please schedule on my calendar. So the candidate is self scheduling. So all that back and forth goes away.

Samuel Klein [00:29:01]:

Beautiful.

Jonathan Whistman [00:29:02]:

Right. And then once they're on your calendar, not only are they reserved, we text them the day before and say, can you please confirm that you're coming? If you don't confirm, we won't have the interview. So now you're not holding calendar free for somebody to do interviews just to have somebody ghost you on the on the call. So that's how WhoHire.com works, but what you have to layer over that is what do I do when I have the person? And I'm doing an interview and when I'm onboarding them in in into my company. So as an example, I do a pressure interview. And what I mean by pressure is I'm putting them in that scenario where I can see how they deal with rejection, and you can look in my book, there's a whole sample of an interview there. I have recordings you can listen to for free. But so to give you a sense of what that is, But then what I have after that is what I call a performance interview. And they are going I'm gonna give them everything they need to do in that job. So if there's a script, I'm giving them the script. I'm giving them 10 examples of people actually doing that script live phone calls, so they can hear it. And this is pre hire. And I say, you can show up for the performance interview, and 2 things are gonna happen. One is we're gonna just do a live call. And based on that call, two things are gonna happen. I'm either gonna offer you the job or I'm gonna tell you no, thank you. If I tell you no, thank you, I'm gonna give you a gift card for $50 a $100 you decide because they're gonna put in some effort. Right? So I don't want them to think, hey. I'm gonna do all this effort, and you're not actually hiring. I'm gonna say, look, at the end of that interview, you're either gonna earn a $100 or I'm gonna offer you the job. 2nd, based on how you do on that job, and I'm gonna score you on these 5 items, and I'm gonna list those out. If you score 1, your commission for the 1st 90 days is gonna be x percent. If you score 5, it's gonna be this percent. And the 5 much higher than the 1. So if you're thinking, Sam, that you're applying for this job and you want this job, how hard are you gonna work to nail that interview? You're gonna nail it because it didn't you want the highest commission possible going in the door. And here's the truth about humans. Nobody will work harder to learn a job than when they want the job. And that's why you put it there because day 1, they show up, they sit in a chair, and they start dialing. There's no training. There's no putting him in HR. Doesn't mean I'm never gonna give him training. Doesn't mean I'm never gonna have him do HR. But day 1, step 1, after they meet the team, they get the pat on the back, they have a doughnut, whatever you do. They're gonna sit in a chair, and they're gonna dial for dollars. Yeah. No. I love it. Because I'm setting this standard on day one that we are a high performance organization. So not only are they gonna dial, then we're gonna debrief their calls. And I'm for sure if if I'm, if I'm hiring an inside sales team, I am not having anybody manually dial phone, just from a technology standpoint. If you still have people manually dialing your phones, looking up numbers, like, you're way behind the technology curve.

Samuel Klein [00:32:30]:

Yeah. No. I love it. I think to all of our listeners and, mostly in the commercial cleaning industry where hiring is so painful. And everybody has, I would say more of a hate relationship with hiring because there's so much, time-consuming. And, by the end of the hiring process, what I have seen and I have done also this mistake. You're so exhausted that you have a decent candidate, and that's okay. No? Where what you're offering, it sounds like a lot, but in reality, it's just a prebuilt system that basically will prequalify candidates on your behalf. So you can meet with the right candidate and not have to interview a 100 potential candidates and figure it out, from all those hundreds who are a good fit now. So you are filtering and already giving also, or or or your clients, what should be, the ideal candidate to start a job interview and then And then, of course, you also throw a lot of advice and tips on the onboarding and once you hire, which I thought it was, amazing.

Jonathan Whistman [00:33:42]:

It is far it is actually far less work to do it right than it is to do it wrong.

Samuel Klein [00:33:49]:

But that's the other thing that I wanted to to talk. I don't know if you have some data or numbers or something that can create awareness of how much more is gonna cost someone who does the wrong hiring versus try to get it right. And there's always a factor of luck, I guess, you know, when you're hiring.

Jonathan Whistman [00:34:12]:

Well, luck in the sense that you can never account for a 100% of who somebody is. Right? So you can think you got it all right, and they show up and they, you know, maybe they have you know, life problems. They're in a bad relationship. They don't know how to manage their finances. They're, you know, they've got some drug or alcohol substance abuse sort of things going on. So you know, you're never gonna screen for all of those things. But companies that we work with, we've seen people 60, 70% turnover down to under 10% turnover. Some companies are down to 4% turnover with really rapid growth. Or what I think is more important is what's the training time like for companies that are hiring recently recent. I did a consulting project under the sales bots for a company that is in the investment space. So they bring in investors and the company uses those investment funds to buy homes. And then the that investors get a pro data share of the returns from that investment portfolio. Well, primarily, the founder of the company had done all of the sales. So you get an investor interested. It's incoming. He would sort of take the call, and he was bringing in about a $1,000,000 a month worth of new investors, which is not shabby. But he had hired people gone through 6-month training processes, getting comfortable to put them in front of his customers, and they would fail, and they would churn out. So his growth was limited just by his ability to hire somebody that could do that role. And so we came we looked at the situation, analyzed these companies. We said, look. We could hire you six people and have them all close their first $1,000,000 within the 1st month. And, of course, he just, you know, the disbelief like this is BS. We did exactly that. We brought because we built a hiring funnel where we had somebody that came in that was just waiting tables before. And on day 1, by the end of day 1 in the company, he sounded as good as the founder on that first sales call and better than any person they'd ever brought into the organization. That entire team went on to close a $1,000,000, and they collectively, those six people ended up hitting a $20,000,000 a month run rate. So you tell me, what did it cost that owner not to fix the front end of his hiring funnel? One thing I know, because I've been in business for myself, my entire life, and I've had a cleaning company. If your entire wealth depends on the person you're putting on that phone screen call, outbound sales, or handling the inbound leads that you give them. If you can't get that position, right, you are by nature constricted in your growth. You could do fabulous cleaning. You could do all of the other things. Right? But if you if you can't get your sales roles right now, and to me, that would include both the inside sales role and then the person that you have, you know, going out visiting with your both existing customers and the leads that you get to get get in to get bids.

Samuel Klein [00:37:29]:

And, I'm gonna make you repeat that last part over and over again because, me, someone who as a living basically provide appointments and leads, and opportunities right to your doorstep, what we have seen is exactly that. If you don't have the right people, doesn't matter if I bring you someone who's desperate for cleaning services, and they're ready to pull the trigger immediately. But if you don't have that person who's gonna close it, you know, and it's motivated and it's the right candidate for your company, doesn't matter. Doesn't matter how many leads you bring. Doesn't matter if you invest and put a $3,000,000 in, advertising. You're still not gonna grow. You're still not gonna close because you don't have the right person in the right position or just the right person for your company. You know? Yeah. Absolutely. That's a huge cost.

Jonathan Whistman [00:38:24]:

So I'm speaking at the ISSA show, and I'm gonna talk about unlocking or cracking the human code. So we're gonna talk about this large data study. My company did cleaning technicians specifically and share some of those highlights, but I'm also gonna be sharing the 5 truths about humans. It's something I write about in my book.

Samuel Klein [00:38:45]:

Yeah. We're gonna go there.

Jonathan Whistman [00:38:47]:

But the other thing I'm gonna share is 2, things that I learned from doing a commercial cleaning business. And one is how never to lose to your competitor and how always to be the highest price.

Samuel Klein [00:38:59]:

You wanna share those 2 real quick here?

Jonathan Whistman [00:39:02]:

Well, they're sort of they're sort of, you know, under wraps for the show.

Samuel Klein [00:39:06]:

There you go. So...

Jonathan Whistman [00:39:08]:

If you twist my arm, I'll share them with you.

Samuel Klein [00:39:12]:

You're gonna have to share it, or otherwise, I will have to polish your personal information on this screen and people will call you to ask you the question. Perfect.

Jonathan Whistman [00:39:22]:

So I'll just go back to my my days cleaning. So, one, how to be the highest price. And this also goes into how not to lose a job. So I made sure whenever I went in to do a proposal, to a business owner, I would do the, you know, normal go through, measure their square feet, have a conversation, what's not working, that are the all those sort of things. And then I would say I'm gonna come back to you with a proposal. I would just like that we absolutely have a call afterwards to tell me yes or no, and a no is fine. Can we agree to that? Cause I'm gonna go to a lot of work, make sure we do this. And they'd always say yes, of course. Right? And one thing that we know is true about humans, if they promise to do something. They're sort of like this inherent, like, guilt if they don't. Yeah. And we all know we've put out a proposal, and they've never looked at. So I always made sure I was obscenely higher priced than anybody else in my market. Like, shockingly high. And when I would follow-up on the proposal, I say, Sam, I've never heard from you. Can we have that conversation you me and, well, I finally get them on the phone. And what would they tell me? Why did I not get the deal? Because -- Price. So I'm actually asking for that objection, and I'm pricing at a point where I know I deserve that objection. And so then I would go down the path of, Sam, how many cleaning companies have you gone through over the last number of years? And one of the things I understood is that there's a you know, if we take a 100% of the things you want done, the other company's only doing about 80, and then you gotta call them. They'll do the other 20, and then they go 80 and then the 20. Right? And you get and they're always turning over their people. And in my business, I've learned I only have 2 things. One is I wanna do a 100% of the things on your list. And that's gonna cost me 2 things. Equipment and chemicals and people on time. Like, that those are my costs. So what I've done is I've calculated my people and my chemicals and equipment to be do a 100% of things on the list, a 100% of the time. Now I didn't win a 100 percent of the deals. But when I won the deals, I was overpriced, and this is my secret sauce. I would do the account for 90 days. And then I would go back in and set up the appointment with Sam. I go, Sam. How's the cleaning been going? Great. You've done a 100% of the things on the list. No change in personnel during that a 100 days. There's one other thing, Sam, that I wanted to talk to you about. Now that we've done your cleaning for 90 days, turns out I'm overcharging you. I'm able to predict what it cost me to do this job for the year and so I brought you a refund check for the last 90 days, and we're gonna be lowering your price.

Samuel Klein [00:42:13]:

Which is unheard. No? Nobody'll do that. Nobody.

Jonathan Whistman [00:42:17]:

So the next time somebody walks in and tries to undercut me on price, what happens? He's not even gonna take the quote because he's like, hey, Jonathan, you know, an executive cleaning charging me exactly what what he needs to charge me to do a 100% of the things, and he's super honest. He's not overcharging me a penny.

Samuel Klein [00:42:38]:

Yeah. You have a client for life.

Jonathan Whistman [00:42:40]:

You have a client for life. So that's step 1. You're not gonna lose. So, like, I really encourage, like, lot of cleaning companies out there sort of competing on price or they're competing on quality, but there's a way to go from making this sort of intellectual quality cleaning to being something concrete. So it's painting that picture for them of you've got a 100% of the items that you need done. People are only doing 60 or 80 percent. Right? And you've gotta, like, let them live that pain, I'm gonna relieve you of that pain.

Samuel Klein [00:43:16]:

Yeah. And I love it.

Jonathan Whistman [00:43:18]:

So the the second mote that I would put around a customer is when we would let's say we get an office, right, and maybe it's a, I don't know, a bank or, surgeon's office. And we would go in and that weekend clean when we first started we would do everything, even things they hadn't paid for. So every piece of VCT tile stripped, polished, pristine, carpets, steam clean, chairs, appropriately clean. Interior exterior windows done. Drop the light lenses. Like, this is a beehive of activity. On every chair in the office, I put a little card with our logo on it and said, please make sure your chair is dry before sitting down. It's been professionally cleaned. Now I know that chair is gonna be dry by Monday, but I want every single person to look at their chair and go, wow. This has been cleaned professionally. I don't know the last time. They might have never even noticed their chair was dirty, but I'm drawing their attention to what I've done. And that caused them to look at their desk and go, oh, there's no dust bunnies here. My monitor's been clean and it seems a little brighter in here. There's, like, the window. Right? But I have to sort of draw their attention, cause them to come off autopilot and understand it. Then at the receptionist desk, I would put a four, four and a half foot massive bouquet. They didn't get flowers like this at their wedding. The next time they get flowers like this is probably gonna be at their funeral. They're beautiful. What do you think happened every single person that walked in through the front door that morning? Nice. Yep. Sam, where did you get the flowers? Is it your wedding? Is it like, what happened? Oh, no. It's our new cleaning company. Didn't they do amazing? Well, yeah, the office smells good. They haven't even gone 30 feet into the door, and you've reinforced to the owner, that they made the right choice even though they overpaid you. So they're already feeling good by the time you show up to give them a refund check. So I'm imagining the poor person that works for maybe some of your clients who go in on a poor cold call, but maybe they get the call and then they go in and they're gonna, like, first if they're dialing in and talking to that gal that got those flowers, are they gonna get passed and set the appointment? Not a chance. If they do a walk in, probably not gonna get past her, but let's say it's a day she doesn't work and they finally get back to the decision maker. That decision maker is not even gonna accept a pricing comparison proposal.

Samuel Klein [00:45:51]:

And, putting it, altogether. No? And that's also -- Yeah.

Samuel Klein [00:45:55]:

Difference between listening and understanding. And it seems like you really understood you know, how they feel and their pain points. And, just with a little human interaction...

Jonathan Whistman [00:46:07]:

So what I would challenge. Yeah. Sorry to interrupt you. Then what I would challenge your listeners to do is dissect every moment of while within their organization. Like, I I usually do three things when I'm designing organizationally. How do I want them to think? How do I want them to feel? And how do I want them to act? And I work backwards from there. How do they feel today? How do they act today? How do they feel today? And then we design that. So when you're thinking about, you know, an applicant applying to a job ad, what do you want them to feel and think when they see your job ad and what action do you want them to take? Well, I want them to apply. Great. And then once they get that text message to ask them to take a survey, How do I want them to think? How do I want them to feel? How do I want them to act? Why want them to go? I don't feel like taking a long questionnaire online, but I really want this thing. And it's right. So I'm at all the way along, I'm gonna be getting them to do that. And when they walk in the doors of my building, It's the same thing. I've gone into companies that have a really high turnover rate. Couldn't keep staff. They'll pay me 1000 of dollars to fly across the country. I'll walk into their office, and their office is dirty. It's in the waiting room. They got magazines that are 2 years out of date. They got old food sitting on the counter. And I'm like, okay. I can tell you why you have high turnover. And they're like, oh, it can't be that simple. No. It's really that simple. Like, humans, we are constantly in a mode of judgment. Right? And things are good or bad by comparison. So we're everything we're looking at. We're comparing it to what have we experienced in the past. What is our standard? So you set the standard for what grade is in your company by all of those external things. I mean, imagine if you go to the doctor and the doctor walks in and, like, swim trunks and, you know, a a Speedo and a tank top. Like, you're you're not gonna trust that doctor even if it's the best doctor in the world. You could be the best company to, you know, to be in the cleaning industry but if when they walk in, they don't see and feel, and it doesn't strike them as authentic and real. Then they may accept the job, but they are going to churn out at the next best opportunity.

Samuel Klein [00:48:42]:

Yeah. No. I think, spot on. No. There is a quote that I love that people, won't remember what you say, but they will definitely remember how you made them feel. No? And just buy small things and disrupting their routine, you can make such a big impact that it will stay for years, and we'll give you leverage and an advantage compared to your competitors.

Jonathan Whistman [00:49:09]:

Yeah. You have to get the details right. And in my book and sort of when I'm doing consulting with organizations as well, I tend to think of a company like a jazz club, and I like jazz music. It's I don't listen to it every day, but it just it has this ability to put me in a place in a mode. And I used to live in Kansas City, and my office was just a few blocks away from where I resided downtown. And along the way, I had to walk past the oldest jazz club in Kansas City. So you can imagine most nights I would probably wanted to stop by. Right? But there were times I wasn't in the mood. But when I was walking by, I would start hearing sort of that music going on. And so I'd be like, ah, I'll just stay for 30 minutes. And I go in and pretty soon I'm tapping my foot, and I'm moving music, and then the bartender's like, hey, Whistman, you wanna drink? Then, you know, all of a sudden, it's 2 AM in the morning. They're like, hey. We're closing the place down. You gotta go home. That's what our business has to be. It has to have such an energy and a rhythm to it that somebody coming past goes, oh, not really in the mood, but let me go in there. And when they come in, their whole mood and energy has to change so that all of a sudden, their rhythm is your rhythm. Like, you have set that tempo. And the beautiful thing about a, like, an actual jazz ensemble is they're known for having visiting musicians. Right? So you've got the house musicians, and they're playing, but they bring in visiting musicians and that visiting musicians coming in because they have talent. And they can play right along with the house musicians, and then they rift you know, and do this crazy musical thing over the top of it, and they land, write and beat with the rest of the music, and they do that because they're such a strong underlying jazz music that they know that structure. And so they can bring their style and their personality and all of that and still be able to land right and beat to the music. And so have you designed your company to be the same way? Draws people in, even if they're not in the mood, they sort of start moving to your tempo. And second, have you created a situation where they can bring their style and their personality and everything else that you liked about them when you hired them. And they can do all that, but they can land right inside of the sales pipeline that you need. They can set the right number of appointments. They can do the follow-up. They can write, they understand how do we build success, and how does that success translate to them personally?

Samuel Klein [00:51:43]:

I love it. Little pause, Jonathan. I I so far, I can go over and over. I wanna be respectful of your time, but I also wanna talk so much about the book So I I can keep asking questions, but, I, again, I wanna be respectful of your time. Let me know if, we wanna

Jonathan Whistman [00:52:04]:

I can go another, say, 20 minutes.

Samuel Klein [00:52:08]:

Perfect. Let me know when you when you want me to wrap it up. But...

Jonathan Whistman [00:52:13]:

This is my passion. I could talk about it all day. But helping business owners get this decision. Right? I could really care less about helping a wealthy person make more money. But for that business owner that has yet to hit success and reproduce it or for the employee joining one of those organizations, that's my passion point because anything we want in life, right, whether it's sending our kids to college, being able to give a standard of living to our family, whether it's you know, donating and contributing inside of our community to make our cities and our countries better. All of that comes from getting sales right.

Samuel Klein [00:52:57]:

So let's link that to your book. No. 'The Sales Boss' that we have, I think, and talk a lot about different topics and points that your book entails, but I wanna hear a little bit, what's the inspiration to write that book? Where does a book come from? And, and, yeah, tell us a little bit of who is the this book for, not like, if someone is hiring, if someone is dealing with sales problem, like, who should read your book?

Jonathan Whistman [00:53:33]:

So my book is primarily written from the perspective. Of a sales leader that's taking over they just got hired at a company to turn the company around, the sales team. So it's written from that perspective. Like, from day 1, I've taken the job all the way to. I'm delivering, you know, the financial outcome the company has hired me to deliver. That's the mindset. So primarily and I call that person the sales boss. And the reason I call him the sales boss instead of the sales manager or the sales leader, two reasons. One is like, you know, you've heard the phrase doing it like a boss. Like, it's got style and flair, and that's what I want in that role. I want somebody that's, you know, thoroughly enjoys it. But second boss is an acronym for how do we, diagnose what going wrong with the team. So it stands for behavior, the outlook, skill, and stature, behavior outlook, skill, stature. And I talk about that in my book. So it's really written for that role. That being said, the second audience I think it's really good for is the owner. To really take a look at what they have. I've met with owners who, you know, sort of thought they were doing okay. And then I said, why don't you sit and listen to 5 of your outgoing sales calls? And they're just nauseous. They're like, I can't believe my team saying things like that. I'm like, why don't we do a ride along with somebody that's meeting with a customer for the first time. Oh, they're just sick because they've allowed some success to believe they're doing great. But when they really dig in and they, like, get into the guts of it, they realize there's so much gold and revenue locked up in people just doing things in an amateurish unplanned way. So I would say owners, sales managers, the other audience that I hadn't thought about, and I was on a podcast a couple of weeks ago, and I made the statement. It's not really for salespeople, and the guy said, no. It's absolutely for salespeople because it helps them to think of their position as a business? Like, what goes into building a great sales team? And if you're really saying you wanna grab people early in sales and cast a vision for what's possible. That book's a good thing for them. So those would be kind of the 3 the 3 areas. The thing that motivated me to write the book is I had been doing sales consulting for a lot of years with large enterprise clients, wrote out in the field with 1000 and 1000 of salespeople sitting in sales calls, in hundreds of different industries. I'd calculated at one point. I was well over 7000 -- Wow. -- sales calls for other companies that I'd sat in on. So that gives you a lot of insight into what sort of works and and and what doesn't. Right? And just being there as a outside observer, But, also, what I discovered is that people's standard of what grade is is so vast. Like, I'm I don't think I've gone into a company yet where the sales leader doesn't think they're great. Until I compare them and give them some actual data about what great looks like. And I I don't think it's necessarily arrogance. It's just things are good or bad by comparison, and that sales leader is probably comparing themselves to who they were trained by or the best sales manager that ever led them or the best. And and we all do that. And so I wanted to write the book to say, here's what the top 1%. I call the top 1% of sales leaders sales bosses. So I wanted to say here's what the top 1% looks like, because I've seen it. I've experienced it. And I think once people that are in that role or considering that role see it, they're capable of achieving it. The reason they're not doing it is they've never seen it. They haven't considered that it's possible. Go back to my example. Most sales leaders have never worked in an environment where somebody at the end of day 1 of hire can outperform the people that they've had there 90 days. They just never have seen that. And we do that a 100% of the time. Interesting.

Samuel Klein [00:57:57]:

So I I guess so. The other thing that I see a lot is that you have a let's talk about comparison in a good sales team and a bad sales team or average. You know? And we all have moments where we see our sales team that while they're killing it, breaking sales records now inside the company doing amazing. And then, again, Sales go back down. And, in my case, what I hear a lot from our cleaning companies is that maybe or the economy or a slowdown, or you can add so many factors, which some of them might be true. Some of them, I guess are also a little bit, of excuse. You know?

Jonathan Whistman [00:58:44]:

None of them are true.

Samuel Klein [00:58:47]:

Well, that's a good point. I do think that none of them are true and, people, who are hungry enough and are focused enough, definitely, you know, overcome any challenge. But, so that's what I keep hearing a lot. And I think those are a lot of excuses now in the sense that so you already prove yourself that you can hit certain numbers, but you never have hit them again. So what I wanna hear from you is, and you can jump in, in this AV as well. No? But how do you maintain consistency in performance? No? I know you I think you're talking in your book also and strategies, outperform competitors and keep momentum because I think keeping momentum is as hard as building momentum sometimes.

Jonathan Whistman [00:59:35]:

Yeah. People mistake company's mistake momentary success for having a successful system. I don't really care what you can do in a month. It's irrelevant. You can't build your financial statement and your business model around some revenue that I did 1 month. It's really what do I do month in, month out, month in, month out, That's my standard. That's who I am. Even an average performer has a great fantastic day. And what they do is they may mistake their best day their best month for who they are as an organization. They're not. They are their average month. That's who they are. And what they have to be able to raise is to where their best month now becomes average is what they do every month, then that's their level. And it comes down to really having a system in place, a way to track that system, to know their numbers. And more importantly, you know, it's the 2 things. I've not only gotta do I have to know my numbers. I have to know each of my people individually so deeply that I know what is their dream, what is passion? What's driving them? How do I plug into that? How do I make my their dream fit within the structure and company that I'm providing for them, that's where greatness comes in. And you know if you look at your best athletes or you, you know, in the entrepreneurial world, if you look at the best entrepreneurs, they're never quite satisfied with where they're at because when they crest one hill, they can see there's this whole other level of playing that's out there. And so I I don't think it's some the way that you maintain it is that you build a system in place that you that you can operate at the level you're operating and at the pace your level that the level you're operating indefinitely without getting tired without letting it go. Right? You could push really hard and have a great month. But have you ever been seeing somebody on a treadmill right in their running? And you can tell it's set, like, 1 mile or 2 mile per hour past what they're really capable of. Like, at some point, they have to shut that treadmill off, and they gotta catch their breath. You can't you if re if running at 2 extra mile an hour is what's required to get you to your sort of minimum standard in your company or the level of grading. It's not sustainable.

Samuel Klein [01:02:14]:

I love that.

Jonathan Whistman [01:02:15]:

You have to have it. So every person in your organization is able to run at the level you're requiring them indefinitely. Now it doesn't mean I'm not gonna turn it up once in a while and let them go for a sprint, but I'm certainly not gonna do that month in and month out just to hit my minimum sales target. I have to design it so my company can hit that sales target with people operating at a level that they're fit enough to run at. And they can do it endlessly. They can do it in their sleep. It's not taxing to them. It's not burning them out. They still have time for their family. They still have time for their personal health. Like, right now, I'm in a period where I'm running really hard for who hire and growing that in different. And so I know I'm gonna be tired. I know I'm gonna but I also know I'm not gonna do it for more than a few months. Does that make sense? So I'm only running really hard and some of the people in my company really hard I know I need to ratchet to the next level, then we're gonna go back to being on a treadmill that we're happy to be on.

Samuel Klein [01:03:14]:

So what are the advise or actionable steps that, sales manager or sales boss can take to avoid that happen. And, happening and, basically, drain your salespeople to have peak performance all the time. And do you have any recommendations, or where do we start? Not like that. Yeah.

Jonathan Whistman [01:03:35]:

I would start with a physical health check, and I have a whole chapter on the 1st 30 days. So I would start on that chapter and I would go through and just do every item in there, but it's basically a health check. Like, do you know your numbers? Do you know your conversion rate? If you don't know the that, figure it out. What is what is average for your organization? What is the best performance look like? What is the worst performance look like? Secondly, what is my turnover in that role? Why is my turnover? How many people in my interview interviewing? Training and turning to get one person that sticks and stays. What is my goal for longevity in that role? I don't see many companies, especially in the cleaning world. Say, our expectation is you're gonna be in that job for 2 years, and then you're gonna switch to this. Like, they're just hoping and they make it past the 6-month point. But you should really analyze your business to say my expectation, what I mark as success is I bring somebody in this role. They stay x period of time. And then I promote them into this role. And I can promote them in this role. Maybe it's outside sales. That's sort of a natural transition. The reason I can promote them in that is because I've built the rest of my business well enough that I can support another outside salesperson. And then when I have x number of outside sales positions, I have a next natural progression. They go into this role. Right along. Like, that's my sheet music. I gotta know, like, where do I go? Where do I go? Cause it You know, there's the old saying if somebody doesn't know how they fit, they'll always be a misfit. So I have to tell that, you know, person I'm bringing to do inside sales. I have to tell them exactly how they fit. And where do they go from here? And if I can't do that, they're gonna be a misfit. They're gonna just bang around in that job until something shinier comes along, and then they're gonna go do or until I piss them off or till they miss their quote and I put them on a performance improvement plan, which is a pain for all of us. When I hire somebody into an inside sales role, I know my numbers so well. Did I say, Sam, I'm confident you can do this role. These are the numbers that we do. This is the this is the income. It's gonna take a home for you. In fact, if you don't if if you're not making x, I'm gonna probably have to let you go. By day x, whatever that is, 60 days. I have a standard. If we're not meeting that, I'm gonna let you go. Because at the end of 60 days, I'm still gonna like you. I probably wouldn't hire you if I didn't like you. And we're probably gonna become better friends. And I'm probably gonna feel like you're part of my family. But if on day 60, you haven't set x number of appointments, or you haven't delivered insert whatever your metric is, then the conversation we're gonna have is, Sam, it's been great knowing you. Let me help you find you out the next job. And the reason I'm gonna do that, Sam, is because I have commitments to my community, my family, and my other employees here, that can only be met if you meet that number. And so I would be stealing from them if I allowed you to stay on the team, and not meet the standard that everyone else has shown they can meet. Are you comfortable taking that job under those terms? And they are. The only be willing to accept the job on those terms if you've done an amazing job up until then. You, like, you can't spring then that after you've done a crappy hiring process. But if you've done a great hiring process because they're already in their mind going, well, of course, I would do that because you're gonna hold me to that. That means I know you're holding your sales manager to some standard, and his income is where you said it would be. And then it like, they're looking that you can paint a vision for them and hold a standard. And if you can't do that and show it to them and get them to buy into it, you're gonna face this constant. Ho, I'm gonna turn out of your organization.

Samuel Klein [01:07:38]:

Yes. Jonathan, so thankful, so humble for everything that you have shared. There is so much to unpack here. We ouch on on hiring, on objections, on sales, in that each one of those have so many ramifications now that really, if you if you just grab an an implement, at least, one of the things that you said, I think it's gonna have a huge positive impact in your business. Before I let you go, what's next on the horizon for Jonathan? No. Any new ventures projects that that you are excited to share with our audience.

Jonathan Whistman [01:08:18]:

Yeah. Wait. So I'm I'm engaged in my next venture now WhoHire.com. I am bringing the power of predictive hiring to the SMB market. So they can have the tools to build a team that matches the size of their vision and their dreams. I'll make a special offer, Sam, for your listeners. My email is jon@whohire.com. If they sign up, I'll set up a meeting with them 1 on 1. Happy to talk about their business, their structure. And if they sign for our product. It's a month by month product. If they sign up for it, I'll have my team do a 100% of the setup for them so they don't have to learn how to do it. And we'll personally, embed the sales boss methodology in there and teach their team that. Wow. That's a good deal. And I'll only be doing that for the 1st, say, 90 days or so as we're, you know, launching into this market. So Just they they can email me say, hey. I'm in. I saw I saw you on the Cleaning in Motion podcast and my assistant will get them on my calendar.

Samuel Klein [01:09:30]:

No. I love it. They can also find, your book, 'The Sales Boss' in Amazon and, what other stores, you mentioned that they can find.

Jonathan Whistman [01:09:39]:

Anywhere you buy books online, you can find me.

Samuel Klein [01:09:43]:

Perfect. So, after the show, we will have, a small recap of the the main takeaways of, these amazing episode. Thank you, Jonathan, and once again, for all your, time knowledge and everything that you have given, to our listeners and looking forward for further collaborations.

Jonathan Whistman [01:10:04]:

It was my pleasure. Thanks for having me on.

INTRO/OUTRO [01:10:06]:

Come on. Thank you for listening to the Cleaning in Motion Show. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, finding more resources, including more sales and marketing tactics online at cleaninginmotion.com. That's cleaninginmotion.com. Until next time.